This was sent in by a fan and it is a response to the letter below it-
Letter to www.flaginstitute.org and Michael Faul,
All of your comments have been debunked extensively by the historian Dr.
Rex Curry and you are simply repeating myths for which you glaringly provide
support or citation (because there is none for you to provide) and it also
indicates that you are unfamiliar with the information debunking your comments
(you are unfamiliar with the opposing arguments because you do not actually
address those arguments. Unless you are just turning a blind eye in order
to evade those arguments).
The German National Socialist salute was not derived from Italy. Your point
would also fail in that even if it were correct, the Italian salute was derived
from the American National Socialist salute, which predated the Italian practice.
It is also interesting to note that at the time that Mussolini learned the
salute, Mussolini was also a well-known and admired leader in the Socialist
movement in Italy.
The salute was not derived from any ancient Roman military salute, nor any
Greek Olympic salute. Your comment in that regard is a startling cliche'.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
You provide support for Dr. Curry's work when you write "In the 1920's France
issued a postage stamp commemorating the Olympic games. The stamp showed
the Olympic stadium and an athlete wearing the laurel wreath of victory,
with his arm outstretched in what was then termed the "Olympic salute".
It also again shows that you are unfamiliar with the opposing evidence in
that the information quoted from you is part of Dr. Rex Curry's work and
supports Dr. Curry's work. The Olympic salute was derived from the American
stiff-arm salute and the American salute predated 1920 by about three decades.
One reason you are unfamiliar with all of the above is because the flag organizations
you participate in are so intellectually dishonest that they do not even
address these topics (and you have given them no thought either as you just
repeat old myths without showing any hint of knowledge of the work that debunks
It is a good bet that they will continue to remain intellectually dishonest
even after this email indicting them about it. Similar to other such groups,
they don't have the guts to show the early photographs from the USA nor to
discuss how the Bellamy salute utilized the military salute that then extended
outward into a stiff arm salute, et cetera. Similarly, they are too intellectually
dishonest to discuss the alphabetical S-letter symbolism of the hakenkreuz
flag used by German socialists. In fact, they are similar to you in always
using words that are specifically designed to hide the truth, such as words
to hide the actual name of the National Socialsit German Workers Party, as
well as avoiding any mention of Mussonlini's background. They will not address
Dr. Curry's work regarding the Latvian use of the swastika, nor the flag
of the Brazilian Integralist Action group et cetera. Nevertheless, consider
this an open public challenge to you and your organizations to openly debate
on your web pages these topics, and even to challenge the historian Dr. Rex
Curry to respond to whatever your organizations have the courage to actually
review and show on these issues. If you and your groups fail to do so, it
will be openly cited as a victory against you and your groups (by your defaults)
regarding the rebuttals made
above. And of course, attention will be called to the intellectual
dishonesty shown by the lack of any comment on these historic issues on your
web pages (including the lack of early photographs from the USA of the stiff-arm
salute, and the lack of information on how the Bellamy salute utilized the
military salute that then extended outward into a stiff arm salute, et cetera).
P.S. the subject line of this email was "Pledge of Allegiance's salute is
wrong. U.S. soldiers used stiff-arm salute before Nazis did." It is worth
noting that you have not disputed the actual subject at all (and the accompanying
letters is farther below and can be accessed by clicking here
). That will be considered a concession
by you in that regard (or is it just more intellectual dishonesty on your
part, about another topic that is not addressed by you nor by the web sites
of your organizations, and never will be?).
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Faul" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
To: "RESEARCH" <email@example.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 3:57 AM
Subject: Re: Pledge of Allegiance's salute is wrong. U.S. soldiers used stiff-arm
salute before Nazis did.
: Dear Sir
: Your assertion that the right-arm nazi salute was derived from American
practice is incorrect. The nazi gesture was adopted following the style
of the Italian fascists. That salute in turn was derived from the ancient
Roman military salute, in itself taken from the Greek Olympic salute.
: In the 1920's France issued a postage stamp commemorating the Olympic games.
The stamp showed the Olympic stadium and an athlete wearing the laurel wreath
of victory, with his arm outstretched in what was then termed the "Olympic
: Subsequent similarities in other countries do not mean that this ancient
(though now discredited) gesture derived from those later forms. "Post
hoc, ergo propter hoc" is no guarantee of the truth of an assertion.
I suggest that the opposite contention is even wider of the mark.
: Yours faithfully
: Michael Faul FFI
: Editor, Flagmaster
: The Flag Institute
: York, England
: Email: firstname.lastname@example.org
: Web: www.flaginstitute.org
THE TRUE SALUTE THAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE THE MODERN
HAND-OVER-THE-HEART GESTURE IN THE PLEDGE
Also see http://rexcurry.net/military-salute-socialism-pledge-allegiance.jpg
The hand-over-the-heart in the Pledge of Allegiance is supposed to be the
military salute (to the chest) according to photographic evidence in new
Even today the military salute at the chest complies with "the right
hand over the heart" dictated under the law that Congress passed. The
chest-military salute may have been the original intent of people who supported
"the right hand over the heart" legislation. A photograph of the
military salute at the chest is at
The original Pledge of Allegiance began with the classic military salute
(to the forehead) that was then extended out toward the flag. It was
the origin of the stiff-arm salute adopted later by the National Socialist
German Workers Party, as shown by the historian Dr. Rex Curry (author of
"Pledge of Allegiance Secrets").
The Pledge's initial military salute was sometimes modified
because some educrats thought it was disrespectful for children
to mimic the military. A modified version of the gesture used the
military salute from the chest and then extended outward in the stiff-arm
salute. An 1899 photograph of the gesture is at
It is frightening to note that Adolf Hitler and German National Socialists
also adopted the gesture of the military salute from the chest extended
outward to the stiff-arm salute.
Congress was so vague that some people (especially those people who were
already performing the military salute from the chest) interpreted "the right
hand over the heart" as meaning the military salute from the chest and
they continued to perform it in that manner, but no longer with the stiff-arm
extension that had followed in the past. http://rexcurry.net/1n1.GIF
Research indicates that the current hand-cupping-the-breast is NOT the
correct gesture, as originally intended, and that the chest-military-salute
IS what was intended by people who supported the current "hand-over-the-heart"
The military salute at the chest is consistent with Francis Bellamy's
original intent to use the military salute as his initial gesture. Francis
Bellamy (author of the Pledge of Allegiance) and his cousin Edward Bellamy
called their dogma "Military Socialism." They wanted all of society
to ape the military. That was the purpose of putting flags over every school
and ordering mechanical chanting in military formation daily. A video documentary
explains more at
The "swastika building" at the Navy's Coronado Seabees Barracks in
California is an odd reminder of the Bellamy dogma. http://rexcurry.net/military-socialism-militarism-socialist-complex.html
The same people who say that Bellamy would have opposed changes to the
words of his Pledge, would agree that Bellamy would have opposed changes
to the gesture of his Pledge.
The military salute at the chest is consistent with the military mentality
of Congress when the current gesture was enacted in 1942 (years after WWII
had already begun, and a year after the U.S. had entered WWII. On June
22, 1942 Congress passed a joint resolution which was amended on December
22, 1942 to become Public Law 829; Chapter 806, 77th Congress, 2nd session.
The Pearl Harbor attack had occurred on December 7, 1941, the U.S. declared
war the following day). http://rexcurry.net/pledge_military.html
Some people thought it was creepy for children to perform
the initial military salute to the forehead as written by Francis
Bellamy in his original Pledge, so the forehead salute of the ritual
was sometimes dropped entirely, leaving nothing but the American stiff-armed
salute. That modified form of the American salute was
later adopted by the National Socialist German Workers' Party.
The military salute is a sign of submission to a superior officer / commanding
officer (in this case the flag / government) whose orders must be obeyed
without question. The Pledge fits the USA's police state, which continues
to expand and grow in power. http://rexcurry.net/1n1.gif
U.S. soldiers used the stiff-arm salute before it was used by the
National Socialist German Workers Party (the NSGWP or Nazis). The American
practice was the origin of the behavior adopted later by German National
Early flag ettiquette for men in uniform included the straight-arm
salute when the flag was passing or when the Pledge of Allegiance
was being mechanically chanted.
The Sunday Times-Signal in Zanesville, Ohio of August 9,
1942 states, "When the flag is passing in parade or in review, all
persons present should face the flag, stand at attention and salute.
Those present in uniform should render the right-hand salute." The same
article distinguishes the behavior for the actual Pledge of Allegiance
by stating that during the pledge, "Persons in uniform shall render the
military salute." The newspaper provides a photograph of the right-hand
salute showing a stiff arm salute with the palm up. The arm and the palm
are so stiff and straight that, at a distance, the viewer would not
see the direction of the palm.
Old photographs collected by Dr. Curry show that the salute was also
performed palm-down in the classic stylized salute adopted later by German
Several newspapers carried an article similar to the one
in the Bismarck Tribune on May 28, 1926. It states that during
the pledge of allegiance "persons in uniform render the right-hand
In that sense, the "Nazi salute" is actually the "American salute" based
on its origin.
As consequence, the USA set a bad example for a long time.
The world observed the U.S. military personnel delivering the
straight-arm salute to the flag before WWI, during WWI, after WWI,
into WWII and for up to three decades before the existence of the
National Socialist German Workers' Party.
It continued into WWII and to 1942 (and beyond) when Congress began
to promote the hand-over-the-heart gesture.
The Pledge salute even influenced the military salute at that time. The
Daily Northwestern Newspaper (Thursday Evening) March 8, 1917, explains
that the military salute had an outward extension. "Standing- at
attention, raise the right hand to the forehead Over the right eye,
palm downward, fingers extended and close together, arm at an angle
of forty-five degrees. Move hand outward about a foot, with a quick motion,
then drop to the side." http://rexcurry.net/nazi%20salute%208.jpg
Many people marveled at Adolf Hilter's "hypnotic" powers of propaganda,
as if he was the first of his kind as head of the National Socialist
German Workers Party. Adolf Hitler's propaganda had already been
pioneered by Francis Bellamy, Edward Bellamy and American socialists.
Francis Bellamy's original Columbus Day program was a blueprint of nationwide
propaganda for socialism in government schools. They put government
flags over schools, in classrooms and everywhere.
They even put flags (and chanting to flags)
in churches in another eerie parallel followed later by socialists in Germany.
Those historical facts explain the enormous
size and scope of government today, the
USA's growing police state, and its aggressive military
socialism. They are reasons for massive reductions
in government, taxation, spending, debt, and
Pledge of Allegiance http://rexcurry.net/1n1.GIF
The American salute also spread after it became
the Olympic salute. http://rexcurry.net/bookchapter1a1c.html
The International Olympic Committee ( IOC ) displays deafening
silence on the Olympic salute. It is fascinating historical amnesia
because it is the same behavior displayed by government and media in
the USA concerning the Pledge of Allegiance as the origin of the Olympic
salute and of the salute of the National Socialist German Workers' Party.
America's leading authority on the Pledge
Of Allegiance showed that the early Pledge salute was not
an ancient Roman salute, and that the straight-arm salute, and
the 'ancient Roman salute' myth, came from the Pledge Of Allegiance.
Hugh S. Johnson (above). General Hugh Johnson,
was head of the National Recovery Administration (NRA). He was
an army officer and politician and loved the Bellamy dogma of
military socialism and the military-socialist complex. Government creates
socialist programs to coerce everyone (including industrial leaders) into
submitting to socialism, and the NRA was another example of that modus
In one photograph (Granger Collection, N.Y.),
Johnson presents President Franklin Delano Roosevelt to
a group of industrial leaders in Washington, D.C. on March
5, 1934 and Johnson uses the straight-arm salute (FDR is holding
the arm of Secret Service aid Gus Generick). see the photograph
Hugh Samuel Johnson (1882-1942) enjoyed the
salute and performed it a lot, even when other people were
becoming even more uncomfortable about it.
According to Time Magazine (9-25-1933), Johnson
as head of the NRA (the National Recovery Administration, FDR's
socialist program) used the salute to review a parade over which
General Johnson presided. Hitler as head of the NSGWP (National
Socialist German Workers' Party) used the salute to review parades.
General Johnson's military background influenced the behavior of other
military personnel. http://rexcurry.net/military-socialism-militarism-socialist-complex.html
The American salute (1892) evolved uses outside
the confines of the Pledge of Allegiance and the flag. It
was another ominous parallel with what developed later under the
National Socialist German Workers' Party. http://rexcurry.net/45th-infantry-division-swastika-sooner-soldiers.html
Those other uses increased through the efforts
of Americans such as Ernst Hanfstaengl and through organizations
such as the German American Bund (The Bund began as the Friends
of New Germany in Chicago in 1933. The group traced its roots to
the Teutonia Society and National Socialist Party, both active in
the USA during the 1920s).
As early as the 1920's, Harvard Graduate Ernst
Hanfstaengl ("Hitler's Piano Player") personally encouraged
the leader of the National Socialist German Workers' Party
to adopt American salutes and chants, especially those that Hanfstaengl
used at Harvard football games. http://rexcurry.net/swastika-hanfstaengl.html
Roosevelt also attended Harvard and knew Hanfstaengl.
The leader of America's national government,
Franklin Delano Roosevelt, learned the salute while growing up,
and the salute was still being performed while Roosevelt was in
office as an adult. Congress did not attempt to change the salute
until after the United States was in WWII.
Franklin Delano Roosevelt received the
USA's Nazi-style salutes while he held office. The
American salute was used outside the confines of the Pledge of Allegiance
and the flag. In other words it acquired other uses, another ominous
parallel with what developed under the National Socialist German
Like a cancer, the flag ritual of government
schools in the United States spread domestically and internationally.
"I was fascinated to see the pictures of
US school kids saluting the flag, as they do seem to have an uncanny
resemblence to images from the period of the National Socialist
German Workers' Party. In this respect they are similar to images
you explained from the 20's and 30's of people giving the 'Olympic'
salute which was identical to the National Socialist German Workers'
Party. This salute was given not only at the Olympics but at all sorts
of other sporting events. I've seen pictures in the local papers for
Northamptonshire from the 1930s of English school children giving the
salute as they march past!"
- Philip C.
The memoirs of Ludwig von Mises, written from
his exile in Geneva in 1940, contain this moving, even tragic,
passage: "Occasionally I entertained the hope that my writings
would bear practical fruit and show the way for policy. Constantly
I have been looking for evidence of a change in ideology. But...I
have come to realize that my theories explain the degeneration of
a great civilization; they do not prevent it. I set out to be a reformer,
but only became the historian of decline." See "Ludwig Von Mises
Notes and Recollections" by Ludwig Von Mises and Hans F. Sennholz; also see
the article "Memories of Ludwig von Mises" by Hans F. Sennholz.
National Socialists and Christian Socialists
in the USA (Francis Bellamy, Edward Bellamy et cetera) were bigots and
hated immigrants and wanted the government to take over all schools to
"correct" everyone. When the government granted their wish, the government's
schools imposed segregation by law and taught racism as official policy.
The government schools also dictated mechanical chanting to the flag with
the early American stiff-arm salute and persecuted anyone who refused.
Today, reporters in the mainstream media show old film footage of the Klan
performing the stiff-arm salute to the American flag, implying that the
Klan is mimicking Nazis, because the reporters are ignorant of the fact
that the stiff-arm was the salute of the Pledge at that time. The government's
behavior set a bad example and it pre-dated and outlasted the same practice
adopted later by the National Socialist German Workers Party. Some of those
policies still haunt Americans and government schools. http://rexcurry.net/kkk-ku-klux-klan-christian-socialism.html
Pledge of Allegiance http://rexcurry.net/pledge_of_allegiance_1930_los_angeles.jpg
Pledge of Allegiance
This is the American salute by employees of the Los
Angeles Department of Water and Power at Ducommon Yards in October,
1930. The flag was raised over the agency. It is another example
of how the American salute was spreading outside of laws forcing children
to chant it in government schools (socialist schools).
The German-American Bund, a supporter German Socialism
and of the National Socialist German Workers' Party, was popular
in southern California. At that time, no one knew how the War would
go in regard to the USA.
Today, adults do not want loudspeakers interrupting them every
morning to command their mechanical chanting ala "1984"! Nevertheless,
adults allow their children to be so abused in government schools where
parents surrender their children. Adults also submit on occasion to the
mechanical chanting due to peer pressure.
Pledge of Allegiance http://rexcurry.net/pledge_of_allegiance_1930_los_angeles.jpg
Pledge of Allegiance
From FrontPage Magazine: "Teachers openly
oppose reciting the Pledge," according to Ari Kaufman. The same article
indicates that Mr. Kaufman taught in government schools (socialist schools)
from 2001-2005 (in Los Angeles).
"Better to be silent and thought a fool than to robotically
chant the Pledge and remove all doubt."
This gesture below would have been a better
idea for America's stiff arm salute
Pledge Allegiance to the right to keep and bear
arms. It still is a better idea for a salute.
Curry's work shows everyone an unintended consequence in
the Pledge: It is a scary reminder of value in the Bill Of Rights
- especially the Second Amendment."
Shocking PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
PHOTOGRAPHS page 1 http://rexcurry.net/pledge2.html