This was sent in by a fan and it is a response to the letter below it-

Letter to www.flaginstitute.org and Michael Faul,

All of your comments have been debunked extensively by the historian Dr. Rex Curry and you are simply repeating myths for which you glaringly provide no
support or citation (because there is none for you to provide) and it also indicates that you are unfamiliar with the information debunking your comments (you are unfamiliar with the opposing arguments because you do not actually address those arguments. Unless you are just turning a blind eye in order to evade those arguments).

The German National Socialist salute was not derived from Italy. Your point would also fail in that even if it were correct, the Italian salute was derived from the American National Socialist salute, which predated the Italian practice. It is also interesting to note that at the time that Mussolini learned the salute, Mussolini was also a well-known and admired leader in the Socialist movement in Italy.

The salute was not derived from any ancient Roman military salute, nor any Greek Olympic salute.  Your comment in that regard is a startling cliche'. You should be ashamed of yourself.

You provide support for Dr. Curry's work when you write "In the 1920's France issued a postage stamp commemorating the Olympic games.  The stamp showed the Olympic stadium and an athlete wearing the laurel wreath of victory, with his arm outstretched in what was then termed the "Olympic salute".  It also again shows that you are unfamiliar with the opposing evidence in that the information quoted from you is part of Dr. Rex Curry's work and supports Dr. Curry's work. The Olympic salute was derived from the American stiff-arm salute and the American salute predated 1920 by about three decades.

One reason you are unfamiliar with all of the above is because the flag organizations you participate in are so intellectually dishonest that they do not even address these topics (and you have given them no thought either as you just repeat old myths without showing any hint of knowledge of the work that debunks them).
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/b@fa.html
and flaginstitute.org

It is a good bet that they will continue to remain intellectually dishonest even after this email indicting them about it. Similar to other such groups, they don't have the guts to show the early photographs from the USA nor to discuss how the Bellamy salute utilized the military salute that then extended outward into a stiff arm salute, et cetera. Similarly, they are too intellectually dishonest to discuss the alphabetical S-letter symbolism of the hakenkreuz flag used by German socialists. In fact, they are similar to you in always using words that are specifically designed to hide the truth, such as words to hide the actual name of the National Socialsit German Workers Party, as well as avoiding any mention of Mussonlini's background. They will not address Dr. Curry's work regarding the Latvian use of the swastika, nor the flag of the Brazilian Integralist Action group et cetera. Nevertheless, consider this an open public challenge to you and your organizations to openly debate on your web pages these topics, and even to challenge the historian Dr. Rex Curry to respond to whatever your organizations have the courage to actually review and show on these issues. If you and your groups fail to do so, it will be openly cited as a victory against you and your groups (by your defaults) regarding the rebuttals made
above.  And of course, attention will be called to the intellectual dishonesty shown by the lack of any comment on these historic issues on your web pages (including the lack of early photographs from the USA of the stiff-arm salute, and the lack of information on how the Bellamy salute utilized the military salute that then extended outward into a stiff arm salute, et cetera).

Tinny Ray
pledge-of-allegiance@earthlink.net


P.S. the subject line of this email was "Pledge of Allegiance's salute is wrong. U.S. soldiers used stiff-arm salute before Nazis did." It is worth noting that you have not disputed the actual subject at all (and the accompanying letters is farther below and can be accessed by clicking here). That will be considered a concession by you in that regard (or is it just more intellectual dishonesty on your part, about another topic that is not addressed by you nor by the web sites of your organizations, and never will be?).

**********************
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Faul" <michael.a.faul@googlemail.com>
To: "RESEARCH" <pledge-of-allegiance@earthlink.net>
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 3:57 AM
Subject: Re: Pledge of Allegiance's salute is wrong. U.S. soldiers used stiff-arm salute before Nazis did.

: Dear Sir
:
: Your assertion that the right-arm nazi salute was derived from American practice is incorrect.  The nazi gesture was adopted following the style of the Italian fascists.  That salute in turn was derived from the ancient Roman military salute, in itself taken from the Greek Olympic salute.
:
: In the 1920's France issued a postage stamp commemorating the Olympic games.  The stamp showed the Olympic stadium and an athlete wearing the laurel wreath of victory, with his arm outstretched in what was then termed the "Olympic salute".
:
: Subsequent similarities in other countries do not mean that this ancient (though now discredited) gesture derived from those later forms.  "Post hoc, ergo propter hoc" is no guarantee of the truth of an assertion.  I suggest that the opposite contention is even wider of the mark.
:
: Yours faithfully
:
: Michael Faul FFI
: Editor, Flagmaster
: The Flag Institute
: York, England
:
: Email: editor@flaginstitute.org
: Web: www.flaginstitute.org


THE TRUE SALUTE THAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE THE MODERN HAND-OVER-THE-HEART GESTURE IN THE PLEDGE

Also see http://rexcurry.net/military-salute-socialism-pledge-allegiance.jpg


The hand-over-the-heart in the Pledge of Allegiance is supposed to be the military salute (to the chest) according to photographic evidence in new research. http://rexcurry.net/pledge-of-allegiance-images.html

Even today the military salute at the chest complies with "the right hand over the heart" dictated under the law that Congress passed. The chest-military salute may have been the original intent of people who supported "the right hand over the heart" legislation. A photograph of the military salute at the chest is at
http://rexcurry.net/military-salute-socialism-pledge-allegiance.jpg

The original Pledge of Allegiance began with the classic military salute (to the forehead) that was then extended out toward the flag. It was the origin of the stiff-arm salute adopted later by the National Socialist German Workers Party, as shown by the historian Dr. Rex Curry (author of "Pledge of Allegiance Secrets").
http://rexcurry.net/pledge-allegiance-pledge-allegiance.jpg

The Pledge's initial military salute was sometimes modified because some educrats thought it was disrespectful for children to mimic the military. A modified version of the gesture used the military salute from the chest and then extended outward in the stiff-arm salute. An 1899 photograph of the gesture is at
http://rexcurry.net/military-socialism-pledgeofallegiance1899.jpg 

It is frightening to note that Adolf Hitler and German National Socialists also adopted the gesture of the military salute from the chest extended outward to the stiff-arm salute.

Congress was so vague that some people (especially those people who were already performing the military salute from the chest) interpreted "the right hand over the heart" as meaning the military salute from the chest and they continued to perform it in that manner, but no longer with the stiff-arm extension that had followed in the past. http://rexcurry.net/1n1.GIF

Research indicates that the current hand-cupping-the-breast is NOT the correct gesture, as originally intended, and that the chest-military-salute IS what was intended by people who supported the current "hand-over-the-heart" phrase.

The military salute at the chest is consistent with Francis Bellamy's original intent to use the military salute as his initial gesture. Francis Bellamy (author of the Pledge of Allegiance) and his cousin Edward Bellamy called their dogma "Military Socialism." They wanted all of society to ape the military. That was the purpose of putting flags over every school and ordering mechanical chanting in military formation daily. A video documentary explains more at
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BssWWZ3XEe4

The "swastika building" at the Navy's Coronado Seabees Barracks in California is an odd reminder of the Bellamy dogma. http://rexcurry.net/military-socialism-militarism-socialist-complex.html

The same people who say that Bellamy would have opposed changes to the words of his Pledge, would agree that Bellamy would have opposed changes to the gesture of his Pledge.

The military salute at the chest is consistent with the military mentality of Congress when the current gesture was enacted in 1942 (years after WWII had already begun, and a year after the U.S. had entered WWII. On June 22, 1942 Congress passed a joint resolution which was amended on December 22, 1942 to become Public Law 829; Chapter 806, 77th Congress, 2nd session. The Pearl Harbor attack had occurred on December 7, 1941, the U.S. declared war the following day). http://rexcurry.net/pledge_military.html

Some people thought it was creepy for children to perform the initial military salute to the forehead as written by Francis Bellamy in his original Pledge, so the forehead salute of the ritual was sometimes dropped entirely, leaving nothing but the American stiff-armed salute.  That modified form of the American salute was later adopted by the National Socialist German Workers' Party.
http://rexcurry.net/pledge2.html

The military salute is a sign of submission to a superior officer / commanding officer (in this case the flag / government) whose orders must be obeyed without question. The Pledge fits the USA's police state, which continues to expand and grow in power. http://rexcurry.net/1n1.gif

U.S. soldiers used the stiff-arm salute before it was used by the National Socialist German Workers Party (the NSGWP or Nazis). The American practice was the origin of the behavior adopted later by German National Socialists. http://rexcurry.net/military-socialism-militarism-socialist-complex.html

Early flag ettiquette for men in uniform included the straight-arm salute when the flag was passing or when the Pledge of Allegiance was being mechanically chanted.
http://rexcurry.net/45th-infantry-division-swastika-sooner-soldiers.html

The Sunday Times-Signal in Zanesville, Ohio of August 9, 1942 states, "When the flag is passing in parade or in review, all persons present should face the flag, stand at attention and salute. Those present in uniform should render the right-hand salute." The same article distinguishes the behavior for the actual Pledge of Allegiance by stating that during the pledge, "Persons in uniform shall render the military salute."  The newspaper provides a photograph of the right-hand salute showing a stiff arm salute with the palm up. The arm and the palm are so stiff and straight that, at a  distance, the viewer would not see the direction of the palm.

Old photographs collected by Dr. Curry show that the salute was also performed palm-down in the classic stylized salute adopted later by German socialists.
http://rexcurry.net/pledge2.html

Several newspapers carried an article similar to the one in the Bismarck Tribune on May 28, 1926.  It states that during the pledge of allegiance "persons in uniform render the right-hand salute."

In that sense, the "Nazi salute" is actually the "American salute" based on its origin.

As consequence, the USA set a bad example for a long time.
http://rexcurry.net/45th-infantry-division-swastika-sooner-soldiers.html

The world observed the U.S. military personnel delivering the straight-arm salute to the flag before WWI, during WWI, after WWI, into WWII and for up to three decades before the existence of the National Socialist German Workers' Party.

It continued into WWII and to 1942 (and beyond) when Congress began to promote the hand-over-the-heart gesture.

The Pledge salute even influenced the military salute at that time. The Daily Northwestern Newspaper (Thursday Evening) March 8, 1917, explains that the military salute had an outward extension. "Standing- at attention, raise the right hand to the forehead Over the right eye, palm downward, fingers extended and close together, arm at an angle of forty-five degrees. Move hand outward about a foot, with a quick motion, then drop to the side." http://rexcurry.net/nazi%20salute%208.jpg

Many people marveled at Adolf Hilter's "hypnotic" powers of propaganda, as if he was the first of his kind as head of the National Socialist German Workers Party. Adolf Hitler's propaganda had already been pioneered by Francis Bellamy, Edward Bellamy and American socialists. Francis Bellamy's original Columbus Day program was a blueprint of nationwide propaganda for socialism in government schools. They put government flags over schools, in classrooms and everywhere.

They even put flags (and chanting to flags) in churches in another eerie parallel followed later by socialists in Germany.

Those historical facts explain the enormous size and scope of government today, the USA's growing police state, and its aggressive military socialism. They are reasons for massive reductions in government, taxation, spending, debt, and socialism.

Pledge of Allegiance http://rexcurry.net/1n1.GIF

The American salute also spread after it became the Olympic salute. http://rexcurry.net/bookchapter1a1c.html  The International Olympic Committee ( IOC ) displays deafening silence on the Olympic salute. It is fascinating historical amnesia because it is the same behavior displayed by government and media in the USA concerning the Pledge of Allegiance as the origin of the Olympic salute and of the salute of the National Socialist German Workers' Party. http://rexcurry.net/olympics.html

America's leading authority on the Pledge Of Allegiance showed that the early Pledge salute was not an ancient Roman salute, and that the straight-arm salute, and the 'ancient Roman salute' myth, came from the Pledge Of Allegiance. http://rexcurry.net/roman-salute-metropolitan-museum-of-art.html



Hugh S. Johnson (above). General Hugh Johnson, was head of the National Recovery Administration (NRA). He was an army officer and politician and loved the Bellamy dogma of military socialism and the military-socialist complex. Government creates socialist programs to coerce everyone (including industrial leaders) into submitting to socialism, and the NRA was another example of that modus operandi.

In one photograph (Granger Collection, N.Y.), Johnson presents President Franklin Delano Roosevelt to a group of industrial leaders in Washington, D.C. on March 5, 1934 and Johnson uses the straight-arm salute (FDR is holding the arm of Secret Service aid Gus Generick). see the photograph at
http://rexcurry.net/nazi-salute-hugh-johnson-fdr.JPG

Hugh Samuel Johnson (1882-1942) enjoyed the salute and performed it a lot, even when other people were becoming even more uncomfortable about it.
According to Time Magazine (9-25-1933), Johnson as head of the NRA (the National Recovery Administration, FDR's socialist program) used the salute to review a parade over which General Johnson presided. Hitler as head of the NSGWP (National Socialist German Workers' Party) used the salute to review parades.

General Johnson's military background influenced the behavior of other military personnel. http://rexcurry.net/military-socialism-militarism-socialist-complex.html

The American salute (1892) evolved uses outside the confines of the Pledge of Allegiance and the flag. It was another ominous parallel with what developed later under the National Socialist German Workers' Party. http://rexcurry.net/45th-infantry-division-swastika-sooner-soldiers.html

Those other uses increased through the efforts of Americans such as Ernst Hanfstaengl and through organizations such as the German American Bund (The Bund began as the Friends of New Germany in Chicago in 1933. The group traced its roots to the Teutonia Society and National Socialist Party, both active in the USA during the 1920s).


As early as the 1920's, Harvard Graduate Ernst Hanfstaengl ("Hitler's Piano Player") personally encouraged the leader of the National Socialist German Workers' Party to adopt American salutes and chants, especially those that Hanfstaengl used at Harvard football games. http://rexcurry.net/swastika-hanfstaengl.html

Roosevelt also attended Harvard and knew Hanfstaengl.

The leader of America's national government, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, learned the salute while growing up, and the salute was still being performed while Roosevelt was in office as an adult. Congress did not attempt to change the salute until after the United States was in WWII.

Franklin Delano Roosevelt received the USA's Nazi-style salutes while he held office.  The American salute was used outside the confines of the Pledge of Allegiance and the flag. In other words it acquired other uses, another ominous parallel with what developed under the National Socialist German Workers' Party.  

Like a cancer, the flag ritual of government schools in the United States spread domestically and internationally.








"I was fascinated to see the pictures of US school kids saluting the flag, as they do seem to have an uncanny resemblence to images from the period of the National Socialist German Workers' Party. In this respect they are similar to images you explained from the 20's and 30's of people giving the 'Olympic' salute which was identical to the National Socialist German Workers' Party. This salute was given not only at the Olympics but at all sorts of other sporting events. I've seen pictures in the local papers for Northamptonshire from the 1930s of English school children giving the salute as they march past!"   - Philip C.
http://rexcurry.net/bookchapter1a1c.html

The memoirs of Ludwig von Mises, written from his exile in Geneva in 1940, contain this moving, even tragic, passage: "Occasionally I entertained the hope that my writings would bear practical fruit and show the way for policy. Constantly I have been looking for evidence of a change in ideology. But...I have come to realize that my theories explain the degeneration of a great civilization; they do not prevent it. I set out to be a reformer, but only became the historian of decline." See "Ludwig Von Mises Notes and Recollections" by Ludwig Von Mises and Hans F. Sennholz; also see the article "Memories of Ludwig von Mises" by Hans F. Sennholz.

Charles Lindbergh










National Socialists and Christian Socialists in the USA (Francis Bellamy, Edward Bellamy et cetera) were bigots and hated immigrants and wanted the government to take over all schools to "correct" everyone. When the government granted their wish, the government's schools imposed segregation by law and taught racism as official policy. The government schools also dictated mechanical chanting to the flag with the early American stiff-arm salute and persecuted anyone who refused. Today, reporters in the mainstream media show old film footage of the Klan performing the stiff-arm salute to the American flag, implying that the Klan is mimicking Nazis, because the reporters are ignorant of the fact that the stiff-arm was the salute of the Pledge at that time. The government's behavior set a bad example and it pre-dated and outlasted the same practice adopted later by the National Socialist German Workers Party. Some of those policies still haunt Americans and government schools. http://rexcurry.net/kkk-ku-klux-klan-christian-socialism.html



Pledge of Allegiance http://rexcurry.net/pledge_of_allegiance_1930_los_angeles.jpg Pledge of Allegiance



This is the American salute by employees of the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power at Ducommon Yards in October, 1930. The flag was raised over the agency. It is another example of how the American salute was spreading outside of laws forcing children to chant it in government schools (socialist schools).

The German-American Bund, a supporter German Socialism and of the National Socialist German Workers' Party, was popular in southern California. At that time, no one knew how the War would go in regard to the USA.

Today, adults do not want loudspeakers interrupting them every morning to command their mechanical chanting ala "1984"! Nevertheless, adults allow their children to be so abused in government schools where parents surrender their children. Adults also submit on occasion to the mechanical chanting due to peer pressure.











Pledge of Allegiance http://rexcurry.net/pledge_of_allegiance_1930_los_angeles.jpg Pledge of Allegiance

From FrontPage Magazine: "Teachers openly oppose reciting the Pledge," according to Ari Kaufman. The same article indicates that Mr. Kaufman taught in government schools (socialist schools) from 2001-2005 (in Los Angeles).

"Better to be silent and thought a fool than to robotically chant the Pledge and remove all doubt."

This gesture below would have been a better idea for America's stiff arm salute
http://rexcurry.net/pledgeofallegiance-salute-gun-girl-right-arm.jpg

http://rexcurry.net/pledgeofallegiance-salute-gun-girl-right-arm.jpg
Pledge Allegiance to the right to keep and bear arms. It still is a better idea for a salute.

"Professor Rex Curry's work shows everyone an unintended consequence in the Pledge: It is a scary reminder of value in the Bill Of Rights - especially the Second Amendment."

The swastika was used as S-letters for "Socialism" http://rexcurry.net/book1a1contents-swastika.html   See the Swastika image http://rexcurry.net/swastika3swastika.jpg Swastika photograph The stiff-arm Nazi salute originated in the USA's Pledge of Allegiance http://rexcurry.net/book1a1contents-pledge.html View a photograph of the early Pledge of Allegiance and its Nazi salute http://rexcurry.net/pledge-allegiance-pledge-allegiance.jpg Francis Bellamy, socialist and author of the Pledge and its notorious salute http://rexcurry.net/pledgetragedy.html Image of straight arm salute from Francis Bellamy http://rexcurry.net/pledge-utah2.jpg Pledge Of Allegiance photograph Edward Bellamy, socialist and the swastika http://rexcurry.net/theosophy-madame-blavatsky-theosophical-society.html Image of swastika under Edward Bellamy http://rexcurry.net/swastika3clear.jpg Swastika image Hear audio on worldwide radio at http://rexcurry.net/audio-rex-curry-podcast-radio.html Fan Mail http://rexcurry.net/pledge_heart.html

Shocking PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE PHOTOGRAPHS page 1 http://rexcurry.net/pledge2.html